Urgent Help - FIS vs. ESF

Posted by alyyang (268 days ago)

Hello,

My daughter is accepted at ESF for Y1 and FIS for Reception (she was born late Dec so FIS puts her in a year lower). I need to decide within the week where to send her this coming september.

Could you share your opinion on the two schools? And should I choose to lower her for one year and put her in Reception just because she's born late in the year?

I also heard that FIS is much more rigorous academically than ESF and so its Reception is equivalent to ESF Year 1. Happy to hear your view on this (please don't bomb me for saying this as I only heard it from the moms in my daughter's school).

Thanks a lot!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

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Posted by jacqueline (265 days ago)

Dear Mother,

My daughter started at FIS last September in the reception class (which is equivalent to Year 1 at ESF schools). I chose the FIS because of its small class sizes, nuturing approach to the children, small school with only 2 reception classes, strong academic programme and high parent involvement. To say my daughter is happy is an understatement - she loves the school!! I chose not to register my child for ESF because I disagree with the large class sizes (30 children) in such large imposing schools. The ESF schooling system is modelled on comprehensive schools in the UK (British National Curriculum, large class sizes etc) whereas the FIS is modelled on private independent schools (small class sizes and individual child approach). Putting your child in a reception class does not mean that she/he is a year behind Year 1; its is simply the system at private international schools. My daughter has achieved so much academically and spiritually during the past 6 months that I would not have her in any other schools in Hong Kong.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by alyyang (265 days ago)

jacqueline,

Thank you so much. I know that a lot of parents have said that FIS is strong academically. I know it's true for Secondary school (based on test scores). But is that also true in Primary school? and how so?

May I know in the last 6 months, what has been taught on reading, math, and french? Do they teach based on each child's ability, i.e. if a child has started reading, would they start Phonics with them again?

Sorry for so many questions. We need to let the school know our decision this week. Thank you very much for your feedbacks.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by TC Ng (264 days ago)

Reception at FIS is not the same level as Year 1 at Primary level in ESF. I would be very interested as to where Jacqueline got her information from. In my humble opinion the standard in Primary 1 is far far higher and age appropriate. I pity the poor children who are doing Primary 1 ESF level in Reception I am a great believer in learning through play in Reception. Jaqueline is certainly entitled to her opionion, however I am sure she has never had a child in an ESF school so having had three children in both I can say with some certainty that her facts are totally incorrect. Since moving my three children into ESF they have thrived, they are happy and cared for with totally committed teachers and I have to say it has been the best move I have ever made. My forth one has now just entered Primary 1 at an ESF primary and is throughly loving it - he has a full time teacher and a full time class room assistant in his class for all of the shool day which was not the case at FIS - I can confidently say I would not have him in any other school system in Hong Kong. Do take a look at both options as only you can make up your mind what is best for your child. Often when one arrives in HK you go with the debenture your company offers you, however it may not a school that will suit you or your child.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by jacqueline (261 days ago)

Please let me correct TC Ng regarding the misconception between the reception class at the FIS and the primary 1 at ESF. There is none. The children are the same age doing the same curriculum at the same level. My daughter entered reception at FIS at the age of 5 (ESF Primary 1); she will enter primary 1 at the age of 6 (ESF Primary 2). The only difference is that FIS is based on the French schooling system and the ESF is based on the Uk comprehensive school system. In the reception class at the FIS there are 2 teachers in charge of 24 students per class. The FIS is very selective and does not provide for special needs chidren whereas the ESF does.

I will however, agree with TC Ng that choosing a school solely depends on one's child. I would recommend viewing both schools with your child to ascertain which school she feels most happy with.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by TC Ng (261 days ago)

I am not entirely sure what is meant by the UK comprehensive school system... other than the UK comprehensive system provides free education. ESF does not and the majority of Primary Schools are conducting PYP - can't see the similarities at all. FIS is not VERY selective, certainly was not in regards to my children as long as we could afford to pay for the debenture they got a place. ESF is non selective, as long as the child is fluent in English for which an interview is conducted they will get a place if one is available. Special needs children are catered for with some specialist ESF schools such as Bradbury and Sarah Roe.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Mighty (261 days ago)

Hi TC Ng
I can see that you have several children in the ESF schools and wonder if you can give me some advice too. We are offered an admissions screening at the Renaissance College in Maonshan (one of the private schools under ESF). My daughter is a native English speaker but it takes her long time to get used to new environment and new people so I am a bit nervous about the screening. Do you know what usual questions they ask and are parents allowed to stay along side with her? Many tks.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by TC Ng (258 days ago)

Mighty, Renaissance College is different than ESF in that at ESF the children must be native English speakers and during the interview the teachers check that this is the case. This is not so at Renaissance College, as I understand it the child does not have to be a native English speaker but does need to get by in English. I would imagine the screeing would be fairly straight forward and the teachers will most likely give the children a few puzzles to do and chat with them. I would suggest that you give the school a call and ask them what is the proceedure for screening, so you can explain the proceedure to your daughter before hand so she is not as nervous. I understand that if you are a permanent resident in HK that you get priority as when the school was set up with as a PIS school it was required by govt that 70% of the children were to be permanent residents. I sure it will all go very smoothly. Good Luck!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Mighty (258 days ago)

Hi TC, tks for your detailed input. In fact the first thing we did was calling the admissions office to find out. But they didnt disclose any information and said all they want to see is the child. My daughter is native in english (she only speaks and understands English anyway) so in that sense, she is OK. We are permanent residents and that adds another good point, as u suggested. I understand the difference in the 2 types of ESF schools now. We originally applied for ESF Shatin (cheaper school fee and a good reputation) but they turned us away as our application was late.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by kazasia (258 days ago)

My child is a native english speaker and he did a "screening" at renaissance esf and was barred because he didnt pass the test. ESF referred me to renaissance and = having just moved to hongkong - was not aware of the subtle differences betweent the old stream esf and the new stream esf -
As it stands there are no places in any old stream esf schools at present - so where would a native english speaking non-resident child go to school? The local schools are largely cantonese - poor state of affairs for foreign professionals like myself coming here to work and we cant educate our children

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Boobear (258 days ago)

Goodness Kazasia, I feel for you. I don't have direct experience with the new ESF but many friends recently had their children interviewed at the new Discovery College Private ESF. The test included things like being able to spell their name, when their birthday was etc. I believe the children are taken to a separate room from the parents (which is definitely the case at old stream ESF). Unlike Renaissance this time round they didn't look at permanent residency as a priority, which is typical because I am. My son didn't even get an interview. Wishing you all the best.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by kazasia (258 days ago)

Thanks Boobear
I dont know what they asked him to do in the test at Renaissance - but i do know that he knows how to spell and write his name and definately knows when his birthday is ! :) I Asked renaissance if i could see his test results about a month ago so i could work out where he was going "wrong" but to date havent been provided with anything ... i also dont have time to dwell on them ... priority is to my child ... just seems there is something wrong with the education system somewhere which really needs to be addressed!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Boobear (258 days ago)

I agree 100%. My son needs to travel about an hour to go to the nearest ESF. I am grateful he has a spot but you are right HK needs to address this issue or professionals like yourself will not choose HK. It will lead to a real brain drain. Another friend is considering home schooling her son, who like your child has no place at the moment. He is entering primary 2. Keep us posted

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by jacqueline (258 days ago)

In reply to TC Ng -
The UK comprehensive school system teaches the British National Curriculum; the same as the ESF. The ESF system was set up some 40 years ago to provide a British education based on the UK government schooling system for expatriates in Hong Kong. Alternatively the new ESF schools, such as the Discovery Bay ESF and Renaissance College are termed as private independent schools (this is a term used for private schools in the UK which are teaching PYP. The local ESF takes Native English Speakers because it receives grants from the HK Government making fees cheaper for parents. The FIS (as well as GSIS) operate as private independent schools which is why they choose to be very selective and require parents to pay a debenture.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by TC Ng (258 days ago)

Jacqueline, you clearly have your facts wrong most public schools in the UK which are private schools by the way and most PIS schools in the uk teach the British national Curriculum. ESF PIS are not based on the Private International Schools in the UK at all, nothing like them. Just to clarify FIS is not VERY selective, if you have a debenture they will take you as in our case.
Kazasia, there is a real problem with obtaining school places here you are correct and it must be very frustrating. My advice to you is find out which ESF School is in your catchement area, do you know which one is? then keep calling them weekly and ask them where your child is on the wait list, do the same with the admissions office at ESF head office. Don't be afraid to be a pain, I have had friends that have done this and it has paid off. It maybe a good idea to accept the next place that comes up even if it is not near to where you live, once in you can request your required school and will get priority. May help. Have you tried some of the smaller schools such as Harbour School and Hong Kong Academy? Hong Kong is a very transient place so hopefully you will not have to wait too long. Good Luck with it all.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Mighty (258 days ago)

I m just thinking aloud: will a good school turn the child away at P1 admissions screening just because he desnt know how to spell his name or he doesnt know when his birthday is. Isnt it more important for the child to be able to reply in English politely that he doesnt know how to spell his name and he doesnt know when his birthday is, if he really could not write (at the moment) and too nervous to remember his birthday when a stranger asks him. A good educator should be able to tell if the child understands English and should not fail him for something he cannot do at the moment or is not his best. Except TC's from the above, it sounded to me it all depends on the test result, which is very sad. For all the good things I heard about RC, I m a bit confused now.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by cd (258 days ago)

To Boobear,
in the 'old' stream ESF, children going for their 'interviews' for P1 are definately taken into a separate room from their parents, at least they were 18 months ago when my daughter did it, and they were 5 years ago when my son did it.
To Mighty, the ESF p1 screening is not very challenging to the child, basically they are taken into a room in groups of 5 or 6 with a teacher, a couple of other teachers observe them. They listen to a story, play with some toys. The teachers watch, see how much they understand, see if they ask questions etc. To Kazasia, like Tc Ng says, get your childs name on the waiting list. You'll never get a place if they're not on the list, and people are always leaving here at short notice, I know 3 families thats happened to just this year, so thats 8 child places that they wouldn't have known were coming up.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by kazasia (258 days ago)

Thanks TC - the first thing i did was contact ESF in decembr and yes he is on the waiting list btoh with the nearest ESF school and with the ESF head office - and i have been calling and emailing all the time to the nearest school and to ESF headoffice - they hate my guts actually because i have been a pain - the process was hampered becasue i was referred to Renaissance which is an "esf" school but this school offers placements as if they are a wholly private school with which does not adhere to ESF enrolment requirements .
I was also told i could only apply to ONE esf school at a time (says so on the web site)
Mighty - yes i agree a good educator should be able to see if a child is so-called "stupid" or whether he understands what is being asked of him or not...
My child started grade one last year overseas where the curriculum was different as do MANY foreign children who come here - maybe renaissance is used to asssing local children who have been primed to know what to expect in these tests .. anyway I know my son isnt stupid - far from it! he is just not a cookie cutter kid i guess

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by alyyang (258 days ago)

kazasia,

Do you live on Hong Kong island? or would you?

I know ESF on the HK side is easier space wise as the catchment area is not as big as the Kowloon schools'.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by jacqueline (257 days ago)

Dear TC Ng,

I would suggest that you contact the ESF and the private ESF to clarify their curriculum and specifications for admitting children into their schools. The FIS does indeed demand the payment of a debenture, but a debenture payment is not paid until one's child has been granted a place. Parents apply for a place without the school knowing whether they can pay a debenture, but a parent would not apply for a school place at FIS (or GSIS, SIS etc) if they could not afford the debenture. The children are selected on their verbal communication, basic knowledge of numbers and the alphabet, social skills, level of English etc. I am presuming it is the same with the ESF, although the ESF is obligated to accept native English speakers first (able and special needs) as dictated by the HK Government and the Education & Manpower Bureau in Hong Kong. The British National Curriculum is taught in government schools in the UK. Private schools in the UK also teach the British National Curriculum but have the privilege of adjusting the curriculum to add such subjects as Latin. The sole reasons why I chose the FIS is because of its small class sizes (my child is rather shy) and to learn French. The cost is irrelevant. Parents chose ESF schools because of the cost (which I consider most reasonable) and, from friends' comments, Mandarin.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by TC Ng (257 days ago)

We had debentures at FIS and we certainly did not change to ESF because of the cost, we felt it was the better option educationally and thus made the change.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Mighty (252 days ago)

Hi TC Ng
Without any private tutoring or home help (just extreme examples), do you think children can speak and write Chinese under the ESF education solely? We are offered an interview at ESF (as well as RC) too. Of course I do not have to decide it now as it is only an initial interview, but I heard that ESF schools do not emphasize on Chinese Language. What do you think?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by TC Ng (252 days ago)

Without private tutoring or home help, in primary school doubtful. However, a pilot mandarin programme was introduced about a year ago in 3 or 4 primary schools and they have 30 or 40 mins mandarin daily - and I understand the intention is to implement it in all Primary schools so if this is introduced into all primary schools maybe. At high school level I understand that a large proportion of students take the Mandarin GCSE don't quote me on this but I understand it is as high as 95% - you may want to check this figure out with ESF directly. RC I understand do much more Chinese during the school day, again best to check with them directly. I would have thought though that as being a native English speaker is not a prerequisit of getting into RC they would have a higher number of Chinese speakers anyway. Good luck with your choice.

(I am based in Hong Kong)