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High FSH, poor respondents in ivf treatment
Posted by joyce_f (358 days ago)
Hi all,
I tried to have ivf in April, after all the stimulation injections, and dr found out that I was not responding to the drug, and stopped the cycle. Then I went to see another dr, she found out that my FSH level is higher than normal, I am 34, FSH was 14 (limit is 11), I was very upset, as all the dr I visited before told me that I was 100% healthy, have regular period, BBT shows my ovulation is ok too. The problem is only my husband’s sperm counts. The FSH result told me that my ovaries are not working very well. Since then I started to have Chinese Medicine daily and acupuncture 3 time a week. Within one month, my FSH dropped back to 7 and kept it on for 4 months. In this cycle, I decided to have another ivf treatment, dr put me on very high dosage Gonal F (450iu) for almost 12 days. On the egg retrieval day, I got 8 eggs retrieved, I was so glad. However, today I went to have the embryos transferred, and found out that my egg quality is not very good, only got 2 eggs fertilized. I am a bit upset, as nothing left to freeze.
Does anyone here have the same experience, if this time fails, should I try again???
(I am based in Hong Kong)
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Posted by alijbj (358 days ago)
hi there,
My case is similiar to yours except worst. I'm 39, FSH was 21 and dr. said i had diminishing ovary reserve. basically freaked out. then dr started me on nasal spray for 4 days, nothing, no signs of follies. i was taken off on the nasal spray for next 4 days. then got scanned again, there was only 1 follie. and started with stims injection (gono f and mixture of menopur, + others) and then found another follie but smaller in size. then few days later, back for scan and ended up with 1 follie. dr. suggested we go ahead cuz he didn't know how much reserve i had and this is the only chance we've got NOW. (dr. sounded like its our last chance) so we went ahead and got egg retrieval. just today which is day 2, doctor said its not fertilized and blamed it on the low sperm quality. (my DH has male factor too) also we know that IVF + ICSI is our only choice here.
after our first experience with IVF, quite discouraging and hopeless as it seems but me & DH decided that we must switch dr. the dr. we are using is just a OB/GYN not a specialist in infertility. my girlfriend whose experienced with IVF 6 years ago (she has 2 kids, one from IVF, one conceived naturally) also thinks we have to choose a dr specializing in infertility. we are thinking of dr. derek lo, william so or clement leung. which dr are you with now?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by joyce_f (358 days ago)
Dear alijbj,
I was suprised that your dr insisted to continue the ivf even you only got 1 follicle. Also, your FSH is so high, you should not use any supression drugs ( nasal spray) In my first attempt, my dr did not know that I had relatively high FSH, so I did use the supression drugs. I got 4 follicles, but I was not on the high dosage, only 300iu, and the eggs did not really grow after 10days stimulation, so he suggested that we should stop the cycle.
I have heard about Clement Leung and Derek Lo, have not heard william so. I have seen Phillip Ho, to me, he is very good too, but quite expensive, and his clinic is in Central, it is too far for us, as we live in the NT. I am with Dr Tung Hiu Fong, she is very famous among local people, may not be known by xpats, her clinic is in both Shatin and TST, I did my ivf in Union hospital in Shatin. I was on high dosage 450IU, I paid about all together $65000.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (357 days ago)
Hi Joyce,
Yes, looking back, we felt we were 'tricked' into this first cycle. our dr. made it sound like its our last chance. His protocol may not be suitable for me...that i don't know. well, one thing we know is that my egg is perfectly normal, has nice round shape size 18mm. so now the dr. says its DH's male factor problem...i understand that if no fertilization takes place, it does not have to be male problem. how to explain ones with 20+ follies and 2 get fertilized? so now, we've wasted around $50K!!!
will use this time & look for another doctor. i heard that philip ho is good but read from other forums that he is not very caring & takes 2 min consultations. wondering what difference there is with labs vs hospital labs, do you know? the one we used is Victory ART in central.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by joyce_f (357 days ago)
Dear Alijbj,
I have two friends now are seeing Philip HO and one friend seeing Clement Ho, I think both of them are ok, why don't you make an appointment to see them both first, and take 2nd opinions before deciding which you will go with? I have heard form this forumn, Dr Alex Doo is good too.
I visited 2 doctors before I could find mine.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (355 days ago)
hi joyce,
where do you go for acupuncture? would like to go this week and next so that I get ready for my next cycle. Also, we are choosing btw Dr. Derek Lo & Alex Doo. But Alex Doo seems to be very very busy.
Tx
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by joyce_f (355 days ago)
Hi Alijbj,
I have heard of these two doctors from this forumn, but never seen them before. My acupuncturist is in Tsuen wan, she does not speak English, only Chinese. Are you taking Chinese medicine?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (354 days ago)
Hi Joyce,
Right now, I'm just waiting for CD 1...never wanted it so badly!!! but yes, the forums out there have said good things about both docs. I have another GF who've seen Dr. Lo before, she said he is really thorough and detail, would answer all patients questions and think out a best solution.
About acupuncturist, I had another thread and some ladies out there referred me to Quality Chi Med in Central. They also have chi med in powder form so I guess I'll be taking Chi med for a month of two.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by yulyzhen (348 days ago)
Dear Ladies:
After a failed cycle of IVF/icsi a year ago in kuala Lumpur, i still feeling physically exhauted, had tried to rely on chinese herbal medicine in Tongrentang, but it does not really help.
Would like to have feedback about acupuncture!!!
I am 34 this year, desperate to try another cycle in Singapore.
(I am based in Kuala Lumpur)
Posted by lilimama (348 days ago)
hi alijbj ,
my acupuncturist is dr sum, his clinic is in central and he can speak english quite well, if you like, i can pm his contact to you
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by joyce_f (347 days ago)
The chinese medicine and acupuncture do work on me, my FSH was 14, after having both, my FSH drops to 7, that helps me to have more eggs in the previous ivf treatment.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by hkexpat2007 (347 days ago)
I've tried Ceceilia The and Troy Sing, who are both well-regarded. Their technique is very different. Although Cecilia's style was more painful, I stuck with her as I just felt more comfortable with her, and had very distinct physical response to her treatment. My dentist, though, stuck with Troy Sing, and he helped regulate her hormones and got her pregnant within 3 months.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (346 days ago)
I've been doing acupunture 4 times now and starting another fresh IVF cycle. Blood tests came back today and my FSH is 14. Dr. said its still high but at least its lowered from 21. I think the accupunture is working on me. However, during the injections, Dr. Lo is advising me not to take any chinese medicine. Acupuncture is ok though. He said i can continue taking chi med during implantation stage.
joyce, how's your cycle?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by joyce_f (345 days ago)
HI Alijbj,
Did you test your FSH before? 14 is still quite high, I will recomand you to try ivf in next cycle, just let the accupunture works a bit more on you. My FSH was 14 in my 1st ivf, i did not response to the drugs.
Today is my day 12 after the ET, I did home preganacy test yesterday, got -ve, a bit disappointed, will try one more test on Sun, if still -ve, I guess the chance is not very high this time, will go back to the clinic to do blood test on Mon.....
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (333 days ago)
Hi joyce,
Thanks for your advice. Actually, I know that ivf is my only option. I just went thru egg retrieval yesterday and tomm will do ET. Good thing about this cycle is I ended up with 4 eggs other than 2. Doctor gave me a surprise although only 2 got fertilized.
Sorry to hear about your BFN. Good luck!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by joyce_f (333 days ago)
Hi Alijbj,
Dont worry too much, only one embryo will be enough to turn you to be a mum.... At least, you have 2 fertilised eggs this time, better than none.... keep my fingers crossed for you ... Try to be relax after ET, don't think of it too much... watch some funny movies. Keep me updated, will pray for you....
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by ireneloh (331 days ago)
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (331 days ago)
Thanks Joyce for your blessing. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
I'm on my 2nd day after transfer now and keeping myself quite relaxed. We had two 4 cell grade 1 embryo so we are quite pleased. Also, sth else to share with you, the ProlIVF ART centre has research studies that show that acupuncture before & after the transfer increases the success rate. So I'm going thru this as well, the Chief Embryologist Dr. Zhou Jia recommends 5 times consecutively after the transfer. Also Dr. Zhou does it herself, she is quick & good with the needles too. Wishing for the BFP now!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by joyce_f (324 days ago)
Hi Alijbj,
How's your feeling so far???
Yes, I know acupuncture can help the embryo to implant. I did not do it last time, if I definately will try in the 2nd attempt.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (323 days ago)
Hi Joyce,
I have 6 days to go until I do the pregnancy test...yesterday went in for my second HCG shot. I'm feeling ok, except for sore breasts and I also have a cough & minor sore throat. Can't take any kind medication right now...but the cough is bothering my sleep. I hope the garlic & fresh juices would cure my cough & throatie.
When will you start your 2nd ivf? Good luck! Yes, research says that before & after ET, acupuncture will help implantation. I did for 5 days after ET.
Will keep you posted!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (322 days ago)
Hi Joyce,
DHEA is new to me, I read your articles about it and seems like the study proves its effectiveness. If you have time, I would go try out. What grade embryo did you have in your first IVF? I've been told that the grading does not matter so much, a grade 5 could implant turn you prego too. sometimes, its in god's hand!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by joyce_f (320 days ago)
Hi alijbj,
I will see my Chinese dr tomorrow, see what she will say about taking this supplement, as I don't want to have any conflict to the Chinese Medicine i am taking. I have heard about the grade of the embryo is not really so related to the implant, but my doctor said the quality of the eggs plays an important role to the fertilised rate, I got 8 eggs, only 2 fertilitsed, that is far from too low. She said in her lab, for normal egg quality, I should have at least 4 to 5 embryos.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (320 days ago)
Hi Joyce,
Also to take note, I found from my experience too...is the lab you use. One of my GF told me the Embrylogist that does ICSI is as important. I found ProlIVFic lab that Dr. Derek Lo & William So set up are so so good. This second time experience has been far much better than the first time. We also have male factor problem but this second time, we had 2 fertilized. Although I had only 4 eggs retrieved (2 eggs of immature size anyway and didn't think they would fertilize) - the two lead eggs did get fertilized.
But don't worry too much, keep your emotions up & stay positive... that also helps! My thoughts are with you.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by joyce_f (320 days ago)
Hi alijbj,
I have heard about the lab experience too, the normal fertilised rate in the Union hospital is about 70%, my one is just lower than normal. Could you rememmber your protoco? Did you have Gonal F?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (319 days ago)
Hi Joyce,
I was on a high dosage of Gono F (each 525 iu) and then every other day given Growth Hormone. And did every day ultra scan + urine test (to check my ovulation). I responded quite well to the stims.
I'm going to test tomm as it will be 14dpt, little bit excited now. Not much symptoms except for sore breasts.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by disco babe (319 days ago)
Good luck with the results alijbj!
Let us know how you get on.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (318 days ago)
Hi ladies,
I just tested positive. I'm kinda stunned and excited! Still can't believe it!
I called the clinic and Dr. Lo's nurse said to test again tomm just to be safe.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by disco babe (318 days ago)
Cogratulations on the fabulous news alijbj!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Keepontrying (318 days ago)
Alijbj,
I have been following your story and am so happy for you! This is such wonderful news. Congratulations!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by joyce_f (318 days ago)
Alijbj,
Congratulations!!! So so glad to hear your good news... Bed rest more, the first 10 weeks are very critical!!!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Havefaith (317 days ago)
Alijibj,
Congrats! That is really great news! Hope all goes well from here on!
HF
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (317 days ago)
Hi Joyce, Keepontrying, Discobabe, Havefaith,
Thanks for your blessings. I will take extra care for next 10 weeks. Hope I won't have much nausea.
Will keep you posted on my status.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by joyce_f (310 days ago)
Hi alijbj,
How are you doing?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by vylli (308 days ago)
Hi,
I stumbled upon this while searching "hong kong doctor progesterone". Would any of you be so kind as to give me the names of the doctors who prescribe you progesterone? (prometrium, utrogest etc..) This is the list I have from reading this thread:
Philip Ho
Joe Chan
william so
clement leung
Tung Hiu Fong
Derek Lo
Is there anyone else--thank you SO much
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (308 days ago)
Hi Joyce,
I'm doing ok. I'm 5 weeks PG now and have not experienced any nausea or bleeding which is good. I understand that btw 6-12 weeks, I may experience morning sickness, headaches...hopefully I wouldn't. I'm still doing some light exercise at the gym, so far so good!
How are you doing? Starting a fresh cycle yet?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by joyce_f (307 days ago)
Hi Alijbj,
Not yet, I think I will try the DHEA for a few months before I start a new cycle, as I am not very confident to go for it so soon, just afraid repeating the same result. I envy you a lot, but I guess, if you have the chance, I should be the same sooner or later.
I do pray for you that you will make it to the final delivery, hope you will see your BB heart beat soon. You know you are my perfect sample I have been dreaming of.
I got back some ivf reports from the hospital last week, and realised that I did have 6 grade one eggs, but only 2 fertilised. My Chinese dr who is seeing both my husband and I said that was mainly from the sperm quality, not the eggs'. But my Gynae said the membrane of my eggs was very thick. Just wonder how bad were your husband's sperms? The morphology of ours is only 4%, mobility is 30%.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (307 days ago)
Hi Joyce,
Don't worry too much and have confidence in yourself. Think positive!!!
Are you doing ICSI? Cuz when we went through the IVF treatment with Dr. Derek Lo this time, I also specifically asked if sperm was the main problem last time. He explained that its mainly the egg problem if they didn't fertilize. We had contradicting views as well, Dr. P Chan explained it was sperm problem which confused us alot. (Lucky we found Dr. Lo!) My DH's morphology was 5% and less than 1% motility. So our situation may have been worst than yours. The view was, at least we found 2 good active sperms out of the whole batch. That's why in my previous threads, I mentioned the lab doing ICSI has such importance.
What does it mean that the membrane of your eggs are very thick? Does it mean its harder to hatch & fertilize? Also, is your DH also doing acupuncture? My DH said that it may have improved the sperm quality a bit. and the Doctors suggest to clean out the sperm bank frequently. During our IVF treatment, we made sure the batch was as fresh as possible. (not older than 7 days)
My thoughts are with you.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Dinna (276 days ago)
hi everybody
i am also the woman doing so many times of ivf, and use the high dosage 450, finally failed, the doctor said that my fsh is high, mean my ovary is dimishing,
because my husband and i are the only child in the family. we really want to have a child. not due to the my elder parents are cannot accept adoption.
sorry, let me saying here,
if anybody who want to share their egg with me or donate their unused embryo for me
my husband and i doing everything to get the baby, but failed
could anyone give me advice or help
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (276 days ago)
hi dinna,
i'm sorry to hear that you are also on the same boat. I think we need to keep our faith & hopes and don't give up. The worst nightmare happened to me this past Mon. I had a miscarriage after 9.5 weeks. Of course, have been devastated but I'm not giving up so soon. I do believe this miracle will happen.
Will need to rest out and hopefully start again next month. I'm taking chi herbal medicines right now to help heal my body and getting it ready for the next cycle. I'm also making lots of chicken soup to replenish nutrients. Does anyone have any other recommendations ? any advice?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Dinna (276 days ago)
hi alijbj
thank for your prompt rely
my doctor suggest me to find the egg donor, rather than use my own egg. because high FSH
can anyone help me, i cried every night.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by joyce_f (276 days ago)
Hi Alijbj,
I am so sorry to hear that you had the horrible misscarriage..... Keep on the chinese medicine and acupuncture, hope that can help...
Dear Dinna,
How old are you and how high is your FSH??? Which doctor you are with??
My doctor suggest me to take the DHEA, that may help to improve the quality of the eggs, maybe you can ask your doctor.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Dinna (276 days ago)
Hi joyce
i am 40 years after few years failure of IVF, my fsh is 20, one of gyn doctor in central.
my doctor suggest me to find the egg donor or share the cost of someone who did not enough money to do ivf but have enough egg. so i can share the egg
do you have any source of egg donor
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Keepontrying (274 days ago)
Alijbj,
I am so sorry to hear about your miscarriage. I can really feel for your loss as I have had multiple miscarriages myself. Do not give up. You will get there one day. Take care of yourself now. I wish you the best of luck on your next try.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (272 days ago)
hi keepontrying,
thanks for your words of encouragement. i will have faith & keep our hopes up. right now, feel a bit weak physically and just trying to replenish nutrients. and doing acupuncture to improve my blood circulation.
wanted to find out if you've read the book "inconceivable"?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Havefaith (272 days ago)
Alijbj,
I am so sorry for your loss. Do be strong and keep your faith! It is a tough road but we are all there for you. I too had a m/c (my 3rd in slightly over one year) in Oct. I was about 9 weeks along as well. The baby's heart had stopped. I was devasted. However, I have recovered both mentally and physically and I still believe it will happen to us.
Keep on trying and have faith! Lots of baby dust to you!
HF
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Keepontrying (272 days ago)
Alijbj,
Yes, do gets lots of rest. Stay strong and let us know if there is anything you need. No, I have not read the book, "inconceivable". What is it about?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (271 days ago)
hi Havefaith
sorry about your m/c, good that you've recovered already. have you started any treatment? my doctor said to see if i can start treatment next month when AF arrives. do you think that's too soon? or becos time is not on our side, we should just see what we have to move forward.
hi keepontrying
the book "Inconceivable" : Winning the Fertility Game is written by Julia Indichova. Julia Indichova's story serves as an encouraging and innovative guide for those still running on the fertility treadmill, and above all, gives new hope to every woman and man who thought they'd tried everything. ---just thought that it could help us stay strong & faithful.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by hkexpat2007 (271 days ago)
Dinna, I have heard of women who have been able to bring down their FSH level with combination of acupuncture and chinese herbs. Have you tried this?
Alibij, I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. Good luck on your next try. I hope you will get lucky next time. Hang in there.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Havefaith (271 days ago)
Alibij,
I had complications with the m/c - I needed 2 S&E procedures and was bleeding for about 4 weeks. To cut the long story short, I did not get my first AF until 2 months after the m/c. During that time, I was seeing Troy to get me back into shape. I was not trying naturally or otherwise until the next AF. That was also what my doctor recommended.
HF
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by alijbj (270 days ago)
Havefaith,
Sorry to hear about your complicated m/c. Hope that Chi herbs & acupuncture is helping you regulate your system & cycle.
btw, I've read in other forums that wheatgrass helps lower FSH. Would anyone know where to get wheatgrass in tablet form? I've tried GNC but they don't have it.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Keepontrying (270 days ago)
alijbj,
Sounds like a good book. I will have to pick one up. Mix (a sandwich/wrap/smoothie shop) sells wheatgrass shots. I'm not sure if they have wheatgrass in tablet form though, but you can try them. If they don't carry it, they may know where you can pick some up. Good luck.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Boobear (269 days ago)
Hi all,
Just wanted to share my positive story. I also have high FSH about the same as Joyce's. I have done three IVF cycles and two out of three were successful. I now have two beautiful children. I would 100% recommend Dr Christopher Haines at the Prince of Wales Hospital. The successful IVF I did there was when I was 35 and it cost me around $45,000, so much cheaper than Central doctors.
Wishing you all the best!
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by joyce_f (267 days ago)
Hi Boobear,
Thanks for your encouraging story. Can you share a bit more with us? How many fertilised embryos did you get in the all 3 ivf??? Did you have other treatments to help to improve you FSH such as acupuncture???
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Boobear (259 days ago)
Hi Joyce,
I didn't have many fertilised embryos. The first cycle that didn't work was with frozen sperm. I only got two fertilised. Also for both successful cycles I transfered the only two quality embryos. I didn't really have any treatment just prior to the successful treatments. I think not having been on any other fertility treament for a few years just prior might have helped, but that is just speculative. Just prior to the failed one I had been doing accupunture, clomid, IUI etc. Think my body was in overload. I did read Inconceivale as well. Very inspiring. Good luck.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by sarahmom (247 days ago)
Does any of you know Dr. Clement Ho's clinic nbr?
Appreciate it if advise me.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
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